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How’s it going out there? It’s Wednesday, November 13th
, and I’m Frank Curzio, host of the S&A Investor Podcast, where I break down the headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets. For all of you that follow me on Facebook, I think I may be done posting. Sometimes my opinions get the best of me, get a little out of hand. Yeah, I basically post anything I want on Facebook, get a lot of crazy comments. Recently I got a ton of comments about my post about Democrats. I know—here we go. Here comes my e-mail, [email protected]
It’s about to light up. No, the Democrats’ logic behind, “Anyone can make it in America, best country in the world, work hard and you can become rich—but don’t become too rich or we’re gonna tax the crap of you,” right? I mean, that’s Democrats’ logic, right? You can’t argue—that’s their logic. And I got a ton of responses, you know, people like, “Oh, it’s not like”—it is like that. That’s a fact, isn’t it? Isn’t that the way it is? I mean, taxing the rich, tax as much as you can—the rich and middle class they tax, not just rich but the middle class.
You know, I’m not rich by any standards, but I worked real hard to get where I am. And a lot of you listening to this followed me during that path. I mean, for the last eight years of this podcast—I mean, I’ve built great friendships _________. You know, writing two newsletters now, two of the top—widest-following newsletters in small caps, traveling like crazy—I’m going to Singapore right after I do this podcast—writing weekly updates for you, updating you on all positions, good and bad. I just had a bad position. You guys know—you know, Wal-Mart stock came down. I’m writing to you telling you exactly what to do about it. I’m there for you. I know. I don’t like losing money on positions. But hey, when we lose, my job is to tell you what to do with these stocks. Most of them have been winners this year, but we had one that came down about 20 percent. We stopped out and I said, “Hey, this is what we’re doing”—we actually didn’t stop out yet. I said, “This is what we’re doing with the stock right now. Here’s what you need to do—very important.” So I have a newsletter following and I’ve been in this business for almost 20 years, doing a radio show now, doing this publishing—this podcast every week, writing for our free sites. That doesn’t include like managing my personal life, two young daughters, five-year old, three-year old—who I love to death, loving having fun with them, spend time with them like crazy.
You know, it’s a lot. Now I’m at the top of my career, doing well, like most people my age. And I’m not being an ass, but being told to pay more money in taxes, which is then given to a lot of people that don’t work as hard as I do. _____ understand why I’m so ticked off. _____ really don’t get it.
Hey, look, if my money was really going to people who have lost their job, they have families that they need to take care of and they’re really trying to find work, honestly I don’t think anyone would have a problem with it. You know, fine. Really, no problem at all. But then you see this video—did you see this video that went viral on YouTube? It’s this fat guy—and I’m allowed to say that ‘cause I’m a little chubby, too, and I’ve been fat for most of my life, much better shape now. But I am gonna put this guy down and use that word. He’s a Boy Scout troop leader and he’s pushing this boulder, this huge rock—it happens to be at a historic site so you’re not supposed to touch it. He pushes this big boulder down the hill, right? I mean, it’s one thing to damage a historical site. He’s on disability! The boulder was like 1,000 pounds! He barely tried to push it—push it down the hill. He’s on disability! He’s filing claims from a car accident he had in 2009. He’s a troop leader, this big fat guy! Go on YouTube. It’s amazing. And that’s where my money’s going to!
And New Yorkers—good luck with that new mayor who said, “We’re raising taxes on people who make money.” That’s it! He actually—“We raising money on—_____________ we’re raising taxes.” Again, I’m not rich. I’m middle class, making a decent living. I have a lot of friends in New York that make a lot of money who have plans to move. They have no choice. They’re like, “Why am I giving this free money away for?” I mean, these guys—some of them work at hedge funds, which you know, it’s death to work on Wall Street now, right? You’re automatically the enemy if you work on Wall Street. No, really, these guys work around the clock, 65-hour weeks. They’re never home with their families, and they’ve got to work harder just to give money away.
I mean, it’s not—believe it or not, it’s not a political rant. It’s not! I like Obama. He’s a basketball player. I love basketball! Maybe the best public speaker I’ve ever heard, and seems like a real decent guy, a family guy. Really it’s not that I don’t like the guy. But how did perception change where taxing people that work hard is okay? It’s like the norm. Like you say things enough and that’s the way it’s supposed to be, like it’s expected. I mean, it’s not like, hey, the economy’s not in great shape. We have massive deficits so we need help. I mean, people understand that. It’s like, “You make money? Screw you. You have to pay more. You could give more. You could give more.” Are you kidding me? Like, that’s the logic that everybody’s buying into.
I mean, it’s amazing. And I don’t know—you know, the Democrat party, you could say, “Well, you know, they’re doing it for votes, you know, ‘cause you have the 1.5 or 2 percent, then you put in like the middle class, maybe like 10, 15 percent of the people.” Most of the people are in that boat. They want handouts—easy votes. Anyway, you wonder why there are record amounts of people using food stamps. Really? One in eight people really need to be on food stamps in America? Are you kidding me with that number? Are you kidding me? I travel the country. There’s “for hire” signs everywhere. Are you kidding me? If you want to work, you could work. If I lost my job and got unemployment for a year—I know nothing about cars. I know how to drive them. I would be a professional mechanic in six months if I—if it depended on feeding my family, in six months I’d be a mechanic. I’d be getting a job anyplace. I’d move anyplace. I’d go to North Dakota and travel there, make my 100 grand or 150 grand—whatever it is—and then come back to see my family. My family would be perfectly fine with that ‘cause I’m taking care of them. I wouldn’t sit home and collect food stamps. It’s just not me.
But you wonder why so many people—record disability. Really? Disability—people hurt their finger, they’re out for six years. I know. I have friends like this that beat the system. I’m playing golf with them sometimes when I go to New York. There’s two of them on disability for ten years. They’re playing golf! It ticks me off. They’re losers. They’re my friends, I know them, they’re pretty cool to hang out with, but they’re losers. They don’t need to be on disability. They’re on a golf course.
Anyway, if you keep giving handouts, people are gonna line up for them. It’s common nature, and I didn’t mean to go on with a huge rant here, but on Facebook it gets a little more heated. So I’m thinking about posting only about sports. I love sports. I go to the ESPN site about four times a day—big sports maniac, one of my hobbies. But yeah, you know, I didn’t mean to go off political—it’s gonna be a political rant to a lot of people. It’s like, “Oh, Frank, you don’t understand.” I do understand. I know that I’m working harder than I’ve ever worked, and I’m not being asked to help out. I’m being told to help out people who are pushing boulders down and collecting disability. It ticks me off a little bit. I mean, come on. A rant is a little justified, don’t you think, even if you’re a Democrat listening to this, a little bit? You’ve got to see it just a little bit.
Anyway, let’s get to this awesome podcast, which my guest today is Rick Rule. And if you don’t know Rick, he’s the smartest resource investor in the world, hands down. 40 years of experience—even guys I know who are brilliant in this industry, everybody knows Rick Rule. He finances companies. He’s been doing—oil resource companies in Canada for most of his career, you know, and he’s been a really good friend to us where if I call and say, “Hey, we’re friends of Rick Rule,” immediately any resource company, any resource company that’s in Canada, basically the CEO will pick up the phone. All you have to do is mention Rick Rule’s name. That’s how big he is. It’s almost like a Warren Buffett in Canada—40 years of experience again financing resource stocks, travels the world, knows about just about every management team in the resource sector.
This interview—I say this a lot. I feel like I’ve been saying this a lot. But this interview is fantastic. There are about five quotes that you could use from this interview that will probably make it in Wall Street Journal or Barron’s. That’s how good this interview’s gonna be when it comes up, quotes like, “I’m going all in on resource stocks for the first time since 2000.” Also another quote: “Uranium prices are about to double.” I mean, some really, really good stuff—nobody likes uranium here. Again, that Fukushima leak—forever. It’s been leaking forever now. You know, once that—hopefully—you know, Japan’s trying to get their nuclear policy back online, uranium policy back online, but you know, it’s really difficult when you can’t really control a leak that happened—when did that happen, like 2010, 2011? But some really, really great stuff.
As always Rick’s gonna share his favorite ideas with us. You know, it’s a fantastic interview. One of the things I love about this podcast is, you know, you get to interview guys like Rick Rule for 30 minutes, and how great is that? I saw him on Fast Money. I see him on CNBC. He’s on for two minutes. Sometimes people interview him for three, four minutes. We got him for 30 minutes—picking Rick Rule’s mind for 30 minutes. That’s why I love this podcast. I know you guys like it. You tell me you like it. For me it’s such a treat to interview these guys for 30 minutes and really pick their minds. And then actually when I hang up, when we finish the interview, we talk for another 15 minutes and ____ _________ stuff. It’s great for my newsletters and sharing new ideas. Anyway, get ready for a really good interview.
Later on I’m gonna break down the markets, and my educational segment. I’m gonna give you three markets outside the US that are dirt cheap right now. You’re not gonna believe these markets when I tell you about them. A little help from Brett Eversole on this, who’s been writing about these three economies, and I’m gonna tell you how you can make money off of them. It’s gonna be interesting. When I provide the numbers and provide the country you’re gonna be like, “What are you, crazy? Are you gonna tell me to invest in these things?” But they’re dirt cheap, trading near book value, and have a lot, a lot of upside. Think of the US once it turned around in 2010, early 2011—or actually in 2010 when you really could’ve bought any stock you wanted and they went up. 2010—we were well off our highs from 2009, from those March lows, but now look where we are today. The same thing’s happening with other economies. You’ve got governments around the world inflating their markets. These markets are just starting to move higher, but there’s three of them that I really like here, and you’re gonna be surprised when you hear them.
But before I get to all of that, let’s get to my interview with investor legend Rick Rule, and here it is.
Hey, we’re talking to Rick Rule, director, president, and CEO of Sprott US Holdings, over 40 years of experience financing, investing in resource companies, and just about the smartest, most respected person in the resource industry. Rick, I want to thank you for again appearing on the S&A Investor Podcast.
Rick Rule: Frank, it’s always a pleasure. I enjoy participating in the Stansberry products and I appreciate the work you guys do with other people, listening in and learning.
Frank Curzio: Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, you know, I’ve listened to your presentations a lot. You’ve been on this podcast numerous times, and there’s one thing that you always say. You want to buy resource stocks when no one else is interested, almost like a Warren Buffett type—when you see blood in the streets. Are we there yet with a lot of these resource companies? Because they’re still down a lot. A lot of people are starting to pick away. Is it time to buy resource stocks?
Rick Rule: My suspicion is that we’re early. My suspicion is also three or four years from now you’re gonna look back at today’s prices and say, “It doesn’t matter that you were early,” if that makes any sense to you. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them either go a little lower or wait a while for their recovery. But given the fact that these businesses are so deeply cyclical, what you are going to decide with hindsight looking at this period is that it is ridiculously, ludicrously cheap. And I think for an investor as opposed to a speculator, being involved at market bottoms is more important than trying to get the timing precise.
So we’re looking to allocate aggressively at this point in time in the market, which as you know from previous calls, is a market change from our normal demeanor.
Frank Curzio: No, definitely. I love the word “aggressively.” And you’ve been in this market for such a long time. That’s why I love talking to you—for decades. You’ve seen so many of these markets. Could you talk to investors a little bit about cyclical markets? Because when you saw the housing market crash people said, “There’s no way it’s gonna come back,” and look where it is now. You’re looking at steel come back tremendously. You’re seeing Goldman Sachs recommend the steel industry when a lot of these stocks are up 30, 40 percent. Even the auto industry was left for dead and you’re seeing huge production numbers. Talk about what happens to these stocks and to the market when they finally do turn to the positive.
Rick Rule: Well, you make a wonderful point, and you’ll note that the industries that you talked about are all capital-intensive like the resource business. The resource business is even more cyclical because it’s an earlier stage in production and it’s more capital-intensive with longer lead times. What that means is that in recoveries supply doesn’t increase fast enough to meet demand because adding supply costs so much money and takes so much time. Similarly when demand falls apart, supply doesn’t come off as fast because there’s so much stranded capital. So these businesses, or at least the valuations of these businesses, experience 80 or 90 percent swings, you know, truly dramatic swings.
The reason for this I think is fairly straightforward. People all regard themselves as searchers for information. Everybody thinks that they have sort of a disciplined, organized, fair mind, and they sort of search the information universe for information to process. That’s not what happens. The human mind searches for information that reinforces comfortable paradigms and prejudices. In other words, rather than having open minds all of us, including Buffett, actually have to fight against the temptation to search for information that reinforces your existing fears.
The second thing is that people’s expectations of the future are framed by their experiences in the immediate past. So investors forget about how they felt in 2008 because the last three months have been pretty good. These two facts—the fact that we search for information that supports our existing paradigm and the fact that we don’t search very far, that our expectation of the future is set by our experience in the immediate past—exacerbates bull markets and exacerbates bear market. Your experience in the immediate past, whether success or failure, determines your near-term outlook, which determines your action. What that means is in periods like 2009-2010 in the resource business the bull market seems to get exacerbated because all of the story, all of the narrative associated with resources has been reinforced in a positive sense. In 2013 the bear market pricing gets dragged out for exactly the same reason. The information that circles us in the market, the narrative, is turned in a negative context rather than a positive context.
Making money in these markets is a function really of disciplining yourself to look through all the noise in the market and find the music. And I think it’s also in one particular measure the ability for the individual investor or speculator to understand that what the market is, is a facility for buying and selling assets. It’s not a subject per se. It’s merely a facility. Too many people talk about the market as if the market itself were the investment, and people need to remember that the market is a facility for buying and selling assets, and it’s the price of the individual asset relative to its ability to generate earnings over time that make you money—a very Buffett-like approach but one that everybody needs to assume. And they need to assume it in all the sectors that they participate in, not just natural resources.
Frank Curzio: You know, Rick, I think you could probably do a 40-minute presentation just on what you just talked about, the psychology of investing and how difficult it is, because you know as well as I do, when you’re probably talking about an industry and you’re getting e-mails saying, “You’re absolutely crazy,” you almost know to the point that you nailed it, you’re gonna be right. And almost the opposite is true when you’re recommending a stock and you get so much positive feedback. You’re almost like nervous about it. But it’s really amazing how you go through the psychology of investing, and how the markets—it’s really cool.
But I wanted to—‘cause we have a little bit of time here, I wanted to talk a little bit about the gold market. People buy gold for several reasons. It’s a safe haven. They buy gold as an alternative currency. But I wanted to—you travel all over the world. I wanted to talk about demand statistics. I mean, is there a lot of demand for gold out there? What would push prices higher other than gold being the safe have and an alternative currency? Because right now it seems like as a safe haven—the stock market seems like it’s going up every single day, so why put your money in gold? And alternative currency right now—I think those fears, at least temporarily, have kind of faded. You and I both know and I’ve listened to your presentations that, you know, they can’t go on printing money forever and it’s gonna end badly, but it seems like in order for gold to move higher it’s gonna be more about demand. Is that a correct saying?
Rick Rule: Well, I think you’re seeing demand. One thing that you’re seeing is the gold market itself has begun to bifurcate in the last six months. The futures market for gold, the paper market if you will, has been very soft having been the leader in the 2008, 2009, 2010 timeframe. At that point in time the momentum, when gold went up to $1,900.00 an ounce, was driven not so much by physical buying but by leveraged long hedge funds and financial institutions that were able to strap on either GLD positions or futures positions in a carry trade, borrowing money very, very, very cheaply and deploying the money with a lot of leverage in a trade that had momentum.
When the gold price and the silver price rolled over, and in particular when short-term US interest rates went up which raised the cost of the carry, the futures market in gold and silver began to fall apart. And as the gold quote fell from $1,900.00 to $1,400.00 and then to $1,300.00, leadership changed to the physical market.
Now I would suggest to you, Frank, that that’s a very old-fashioned investment is, that is, a first-class asset—gold—was going from weak hands—leveraged long hedge funds, banks, and financial institutions—to strong hands—unleveraged retail savers who planned on holding the gold for a decade. At the same time physical transfers took place from central banks, Western central banks managing fairly sclerotic, aging, indebted societies, to emerging and frontier market central banks, certainly societies that hadn’t been disciplined in the 1990s but rather societies that were frozen out of credit markets so they weren’t over-encumbered. My suspicion is that the dichotomy that we’re seeing between the futures market and the physical market resembles nothing so much as a coiled spring. Price leadership takes place in the paper market, but the paper market is gradually ceding volume to the physical market. And I suspect the physical market will overcome the paper market.
At the same time that the physical market in the last six months was very weak, the physicals market was the strongest that we have ever seen it in terms of transactions and accumulations on a per-ounce basis. And when I say strong, I mean strong in every market. US retail gold and silver sales were the highest that they have ever been. Our own physicals business at Sprott registered the highest volumes it’s ever been.
But that masked incredible demand from places that we didn’t see in the market at all ten years ago. As an example, in India, despite the imposition of very strong excise taxes on gold, the premium for physical in India over the spot price is 20 percent. The physical demand in India is absolutely unbelievable right now, and you can see if you go on the web the lineups for physical in Hong Kong and China.
So I suspect what you’re seeing is a real ground wave of support for precious metals in the physicals market at the same time that you see the paper or futures market still fairly weak.
Frank Curzio: And you know, a lot of things that you’re telling me here—I read a quote. I don’t know if it was from you, but it was about Eric Sprott, that he’s more bullish as ever, also since 2000. He’s buying junior miners and he sees gold prices at $2,000.00. Maybe that _______ a lot what you’re just talking about. My question is do we need at least $1,500.00 an ounce for this market to get going again? Since last time we talked and the last two times we talked, and even when I had a personal discussion with you at one of our conferences you were talking about the all-in cash costs, where they could be anywhere from $1,300.00 to $1,400.00, which is amazing ‘cause you don’t really see that number. You see more like $1,100.00, $1,200.00. Where do you need to see gold prices where it’s beneficial for the producers? Let’s talk about the stocks and for these guys to actually make money, which will probably be reflected in their stock price going a lot higher.
Rick Rule: Well, I think surprisingly that the industry’s all-in cash cost is probably more like $1,700.00.
Frank Curzio: Wow.
Rick Rule: Two things are happening. The industry all-in cash costs are now falling fairly rapidly, which is a good thing. All-in cash cost of course includes acquisition costs, and many acquisitions happened in the 2009-2010 timeframe. And so the depreciation associated with those ounces with very, very high-cost acquisitions are burdening companies’ income statements, but they’re now being written off the balance sheet. The second thing is that the cost pressures that were driving the industry in terms of salaries and input costs are falling fairly rapidly.
So all-in cash costs are falling, but I suspect that the best quartile of gold producers, that is the most efficient 25 percent, have all-in cash costs that are much lower, all-in cash costs that are in the sort of $900.00 range. And if we got to $1,500.00 US, that becomes a fairly attractive business. In particular it’s a fairly attractive business because the best quartile of producers have growth that’s baked in the cake. In other words they have capital projects that are funded. They have exploration work that is completed. And the very best producers, if say they’re producing 400,000 ounces a year today, will absolutely, positively be producing 600,000 or 700,000 ounces four years from now. And if they can increase their production by 50 percent at the same time that they increase their margins by 30 or 40 percent, and if the outlook associated with the industry is such that the payment matrices—in other words the premiums hat are paid relative to things like EBITDA and production increase—if you get the conjunction of those three factors coming into a market, you’ll see dramatic share price escalations.
In illustration of the question that you just asked, Frank, I was visiting with Eric Sprott on the phone about three weeks ago, and he pointed out two interesting facts to me in a historical context. One, the Sprott business over 30 years measured by any relevant metric has increased 100-fold—not 100 percent, 100-fold as a consequence of the aggressive deployment of capital at market bottoms. That’s really what we have done. We’ve been a natural resource-centric firm that has aggressively deployed capital at market bottoms, which says something about the efficacy of the strategy long term.
Probably more importantly in the near term, Eric said, “The truth is that from peak to trough in a bad market, a well-selected, speculative, junior portfolio loses at least 50 percent, but more likely 60 percent in value,” and that these peak to trough moves take three to four years. Conversely in the trough to peak period, these well-constructed portfolios, at least looking at the Sprott portfolios over the last 30 years, increased between 500 and 1,000 percent. So while the declines are certainly unpleasant, particularly relative to more stable businesses, the recoveries are so violent, they are so dramatic that if one has the discipline, if one has the patience, if one has the ability to endure the pain, the rewards associated with playing these cycles are absolutely incredible.
And what’s more important in terms of our discussion, Frank, is that we’ve been through three years of the pain. If you’ve hung out through the pain, you may as well enjoy the gain, particularly because in a historical context the gains are more dramatic than they are in any other sector I know.
Frank Curzio: And you know, it’s funny that you mention that, ‘cause when we look at housing or when we look at other cyclical industries that have come back, you see the housing sector _____ stocks go up 100, maybe 150 percent off the lows. You can see—and I’ve been through this with the last cycle—where these stocks, like you said, if you have the patience, the reward isn’t 100 percent. It’s 300, 400, 500. And Rick, how many stocks have you seen go up 1,000 percent when these cycles turn over your career?
Rick Rule: Literally scores, literally scores. And it’s important to segregate the resource sector from other extremely volatile sectors with big upside. People often compare and contrast the resource sector with, as an example, the technology sector. The truth is that if you segregate qualitatively in the resource sector, that is that you choose resource stocks that have resources, real resources as opposed to stories, the supply of the real ones is completely constrained. With regards to, as an example, technology as a sector, the supply is constrained only by the human imagination. So what happens when the resource sector moves is at the beginning of the move at least, the move is not orchestrated but really participated in by people who are fairly discriminating. And the money that is involved in the first part of the recovery is really money that’s oriented into a fairly limited number of silos. Those are companies that have real resources that have been developed over the past decade.
In other sectors recoveries are much more broad-based, which means on an individual security basis the recoveries are much more muted, simply because the money that flows back into the sector flows into a much greater number of participants than it does in the natural resource sector, which is a different way of saying that because our sector is constrained by prior capital expenditures, the recoveries are much more concentrated, and as a consequence of that much more dramatic.
Frank Curzio: We’re talking to Rick Rule, one of the smartest if not the smartest resource investor in the world in my opinion, and just a few more questions here. I wanted to talk really quick about the uranium market, and we’ll stay on topic here because this is a market, you said, where the resource sector—it’s been three years of pain. It’s been a little bit longer, and even since 2011 price has basically been in a free fall. Of course we had Fukushima, which reports suggest that the nuclear plant is still leaking radiation there. But there seems to be bargains of a lifetime in this industry. I mean, companies that I’ve bought—Fission Uranium from my Phase One newsletter, also Denizen Mines. Is it time to buy this sector? Especially, like you said, it seems like a lot of the pain is already reflected, but as a long-term investor the reward could be great. Am I off-point here? Do you agree with that?
Rick Rule: Well, first of all, let me compliment you on your selection. There are a lot of uranium stocks out there, and I think you’ve, with the two names that you’ve mentioned, done a very good job on the speculative side of the uranium market. So you’re to be congratulated.
Frank Curzio: Thanks.
Rick Rule: I love discussing uranium because it’s, if you will, sort of a leveraged laboratory for everything that we do in resources. The volatility in uranium prices and hence the volatility in the net asset value of resources in uranium is amazingly dramatic. The industry estimates that it takes $75.00 a pound to earn back its cost of capital on a global basis. We’re selling at least in the spot market for $36.00 a pound or $35.00 a pound. That means that the industry is losing $30.00-something a pound and of course trying to make it up on volume. The industry is in fact in liquidation. It sounds like it couldn’t possibly get any worse, so sentiment with regards to uranium is really, really bad, and it’s particularly bad because of the problems at—in Japan, at Fukushima.
It stands to reason that when perception of the industry is terrible, that the industry will be at its cheapest. And people say, “Why on earth would I buy an industry that’s in liquidation? Why would I buy an industry that’s losing $30.00 a pound?” The reason that you would do that is very simple: because either the uranium price goes up over three or four years to $75.00 a pound, or the lights go out around the world. It really, truly is that simple.
If I said to you—and I didn’t use the word “uranium”—that XYZ was selling for $36.00 and it was almost certain to double over four years, almost certain, the idea of an almost certain double in the three- to four-year timeframe is a fairly attractive proposition—until you had back the word “uranium.” And if you can overcome the emotion associated with the word, you get to add back the near certainty of a three- or four-year double, which to me is fairly attractive. And if you double the price of the commodity, the margins associated with producing it for the efficient producers don’t double; they go up five-fold or six-fold. And if you overlay then the return to favor of an asset class and the prospect of higher pricing matrices relative to EBITDA, you get the same type of—and I apologize for the pun—you get the same type of explosive appreciation in the uranium sector that you got in 2004-2005 where the uranium equities were uniformly up ten-fold or twenty-fold.
I think this is an extremely attractive proposition. It’s something that might not play out in 12 months. It might not play out in 24 months. It will certainly play out in 36 months and I think be dramatic over 48 months. And the idea that you could in the commodity itself by buying something like Uranium Participation Corp have a fairly high probability three- or four-year double, and in a well-selected portfolio of uranium producers or developers have the possibility, the strong possibility of 500 or 1,000 percent returns over the same period of time from their market bottoms, I mean, to me that’s an extremely compelling argument.
Frank Curzio: You know, I’m laughing here and trying not to laugh into the microphone. If you really do take out the word “uranium”—you can’t put it better than that, because I would bet anything that prices will double within three years or four years. I’d bet anything, and I’m sure everybody else would—if you really took out the word “uranium.” But when you hear “uranium” people are just like, “Uh”—you know how it is, which probably means we’re definitely near bottom, right? ‘Cause nobody—still today, right, I mean, even when you probably pitch uranium at different conferences, people are probably like, “Ah, nah, I’m not getting into uranium.”
Rick Rule: I get two responses. Some people say, “Why bother?” and some people say, “It’s immoral!” And I remember the immoral argument at the bottom in 2000. You know, people would say, “Rick, you’re talking about Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Three Mile Island, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Those same people at 2005 after the uranium price had gone from $10.00 to $130.00—they’re something about a thirteen-fold escalation in uranium prices that—let’s just say it changed the morality, and those same people were looking for stock tips.
Frank Curzio: I love that. I love that story.
Rick Rule: I hate to sound cynical, but you know, I experienced this personally.
Frank Curzio: That’s great stuff. One last sector and I’ll promise I’ll let you go is oil. I mean, we’re seeing prices now—you know the pattern, Rick. If we push through $100.00, which we had news on Syria—you know, we have guys talking $150.00 oil prices. Once oil falls below $100.00, like it recently did, we get the $60.00 forecast being mentioned on TV. I don’t know where prices are gonna be next month. I don’t know where they’re gonna be a year from now. But let’s take a five-year outlook. Where do you see oil prices averaging over a five-year period? Which means maybe they do hit $60.00 and maybe they do hit $150.00 in that timeframe, but over the next five years where do you see oil prices averaging? Which is still kind of a tough question.
Rick Rule: I wouldn’t be surprised in the next 12 months to see the oil price down in the $80.00s, $70.00s or $80.00s. The reason for that is that I see demand continuing to be weak. For all the discussion of a Western world recovery or a US recovery, the US recovery seems to be a recovery in everything except for production and jobs, which is to say it’s a liquidity-led recovery. And liquidity doesn’t burn oil, so I see fairly soft demand, and I see fairly soft demand on a global basis.
What is gonna help oil prices is continued tightness in supply, certainly not in terms of US supply, which is doing very well, or even North American supply if you constrain the definition of North America to the United States and Canada. But what’s happening on the supply side is that contrary to most of your readers’ and listeners’ beliefs, most oil is not produced by the big oil companies. It’s not produced by Shell and Exxon. It’s produced by national oil companies. Oil is produced by the same people who run the Department of Motor Vehicles and the Department of Education. And these national oil companies have diverted too much of their free cash flow away from sustaining capital investments and to politically expedient domestic spending programs.
The consequence of that—and I’ve been talking about this in your interviews for years—you have major export countries like Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador, Indonesia, and Iran where their ability to satisfy their domestic demand, never mind to export oil, has been seriously constrained. And it’s important to note that you can’t just add back capital and restore those export volumes right away. It takes five or six years.
So what we’re seeing in the oil market, at least in the oil export market, is really unexpected tightness. That was driven home six or seven months ago when the oil price went up on political unrest in Egypt and Syria, neither of which are oil producers to any particular extent. What it means is that the world’s export supply of oil is increasingly constrained. It’s only really the rebound in Iraqi production which has kept oil below the sort of $115.00, $120.00 a barrel level.
If you look out two or three or four years past the weakness in demand that we’ll experience in the next 12 to 18 months, I think you’re gonna see surprisingly strong prices for oil as a consequence of systemic weakness on the supply side with regards to many of the non-OPEC exporters. I think this is gonna be particularly good for the United States, by the way, because the United States as a consequence of its very, very fervent market is seeing supply increases at the same time that the United States is finally beginning to see on a systemic basis the crossover of natural gas as a substitute for oil throughout the production cycle, in base chemicals, in power generation, and increasingly as a motor fuel. I think that the worldwide supply-demand picture in oil pricing will be particularly advantageous for the United States, but I think the sector as a whole will do much better than people think it will.
Frank Curzio: That’s interesting. Well, I always end our interviews with this final question, and I know it’s one of the favorite questions from listeners, is what are some of your favorite ideas if possible that you could share with us, even if they’re large cap, small cap, across any of the sectors that we talked about? What are some of the things that are interesting to you maybe in terms of specific ideas?
Rick Rule: Well, I’m attracted to the uranium sector. I think the easiest way to play it for your readers is probably to look at a Canadian-listed vehicle called Uranium Participation Corp that has a very simple business. They buy and store uranium. And I think the uranium business is a business that over three or four years is a probability, not a possibility.
I like the whole precious metals complex, too, but I particularly like the platinum and palladium sector. Platinum and palladium are priced well below the cost of production, and most of the production is constrained in South Africa, which is experiencing real difficulties. I think platinum and palladium prices will be up substantially over the next two years. I think they have all the attributes of the other precious metals, which will do well, but I think the supply-demand fundamentals associated with platinum and palladium are such that they will do spectacularly well.
In platinum and palladium I have to say I like our own vehicle, the Sprott Physical Platinum and Palladium Trust, traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol SPPP, particularly well. I’m nervous about the platinum and palladium equities because I don’t see any of the major producers being able to make any money at all in this context, and I see them all challenged because of their participation in South Africa with the social and political challenges associated with that. So I would play that game very much towards the metal itself rather than towards the producer.
But I think it’s time really for your readers to begin to think about secular exposure towards resources. I think a case can be made for the very large mining companies like Rio Tinto and BHP, the biggest mining companies in the world, companies that made monumental mistakes in the up cycle but have world-class resources, world-class reserves, very good balance sheets, and generate really substantial free cash flows at a market bottom. The idea that you’re delivering substantial free cash flows at a market bottom and then you get to experience the rebound in pricing and the re-pricing based on people’s increasing appreciation of natural resources gives you the ability to probably begin to enjoy penny stock returns in much, much, much larger companies.
Of course for more aggressive investors there are greater profit opportunities coming down the quality scale, but those aren’t the type of opportunities that either you or I would like me to talk about on this broadcast—
Frank Curzio: Yes.
Rick Rule: Without deep and detailed discussions of the risk and the strategies.
Frank Curzio: Exactly. That’s why people pay us for our services. [Laughter]
Rick Rule: Right, right. And, you know, you guys have done a wonderful job over time drilling down with various experts and bringing more detailed discussions to bear on more speculative companies where your investors have needed to know in more detail how to play the game.
Frank Curzio: Yeah, and we appreciate that. And the reason why we’re able to do that, in all seriousness, is we get to talk to guys like you. And, you know, a lot of times when I recommend stocks, especially in the resource sector, I’m calling you first because you know the histories and especially the management teams for a long time behind these companies.
So, Rick, I usually keep these interviews to 20 minutes; I went a little bit over 30 ‘cause everything was so interesting. I really appreciate you taking the time. I say this to a lot of my guests. I know how busy you are. You travel the world. And it means a lot that you took the time to come on this podcast.
Rick Rule: I have always enjoyed these processes, Frank. I think your background in a whole bunch of industries makes you uniquely qualified [Laughter] to ask questions of a specialist like myself, and I always enjoy the process. So thank you for the opportunity to speak to your audience.
Frank Curzio: Thanks. I really appreciate that. I’ll talk to you soon.
Rick Rule: Thank you.
Frank Curzio: Thanks.
All right, guys. How amazing was that interview? _____ you think, “So maybe not?” I did. I loved that interview. He gave a lot of great quotes. I mean, I’ve been a bear on gold stocks for a while now, as you know, and when I listen to guys like Rick Rule who’ve been in this industry for a long time, and even Marin Katusa, another gentleman who hates when I mention his name and I won’t who’s a brilliant, brilliant investor who helps me out actually and gives me a lot of picks for my Phase One newsletter—who’s brilliant, but again he doesn’t want me mentioning his name. He doesn’t take any credit. He doesn’t like the spotlight. That’s why I like him so much. He knows who he is when he listens to this podcast.
But when I listen to these guys and how they’re investing, that’s what persuades me to start looking at this sector. So there’s no stubbornness. Like, I’ll look at the numbers and be like, “Look, all-in cash costs for gold are higher. A lot of these producers can’t make money and it’s a lot of trouble.” But when I hear guys like Rick Rule it makes me want to research this sector. So there’s no stubbornness. It’s not like they’re going on TV and taking this stance. Like, that’s why I feel like perma-bears and perma-bulls, like, they just have one stand all the time. That’s it. Whatever it is—everything’s bearish no matter what. Oh, the economy grew three percent? No, it didn’t! You know, look at inventories, and you know, consumer spending’s—like, they always look at the negative. When the facts change it’s okay to change your mind, and right now I’m starting to look at a lot of junior miner stocks that are still down 60, 70 percent. I talked to rick Rule even off the air, and you know, he’s pointing me in the right direction. You’re probably gonna see a lot of those picks who w up in Phase One.
But again, don’t be stubborn in your ways. If you get information—I’m getting information from just about the smartest guy in the resource sector saying, “Look, now is really the time to buy.” He talked about investor psychology, why you have to look at these things. Forget about the fundamentals right now. You’ve got to buy them right now. This market’s gonna turn. It just encourages me to go ahead and look at some of these issues, and that’s what it is about being an analyst. It’s not being bullish all the time or bearish all the time. It’s listening to a lot of people within these industries, looking at the facts, and making my own decision. I’m starting to look at this sector.
So really, really good stuff again from Rick Rule. Let me know what you thought, though. This podcast is about you, not about me—[email protected]
E-mail me with your feedback. [email protected]
Now let’s get to the markets. This past week we saw a good jobs number, right? Can’t deny it. Also 2.8 percent on GDP—surprised a lot of people, right? It was supposed to be growing at two percent and all of a sudden it’s close to three percent? You know, you look at economists—everybody—like, I think there was, like, two people that had 2.5 percent in the economists. You know, Steve Liesman’s like, “Oh, I knew this was gonna happen,” you know, but he didn’t really say it. He just said it, “Oh, I knew it was gonna happen. You know, it made sense.” But nobody really predicted 2.8 percent.
So, you know, looking at the number it was really strong, and looking into that 2.8 percent a lot of it was due to inventories, right? A lot of these companies are building off inventories. Now why would they do that? Because the holiday season is right around the corner. So businesses are stocking up maybe for the holidays and, you know, you’re looking more detailed into that number, it showed that consumer spending is slowing. So before we get hung up on this 2.8 percent number—wow, the economy’s back; everything’s good—just be careful here because there’s lower consumer spending and the inventory build definitely contributed to that high number, but what happens if we have fewer sales during the holiday season? Which can happen—I mean, a lot of people ______ get paid—you know, it could lead to a lot of excess inventory and a reversal of this number. But just be careful with that number because going forward a lot of the government shutdown was not factored in this number. It’s gonna be factored in the next number. We could see a number at 1.8 percent, 1.9 percent next time around, especially if we don’t see a good holiday season.
So, you know, be careful with this number. It doesn’t mean three percent. But if the next number comes in really strong it’s gonna be hard for any bear on the economy to say things are bad right now. I mean, you know how the government is. They’re doing everything they can to inflate the economy. If we get a 2.8 percent—if we get a 2.5 or higher next month, that means a lot of the government shutdown is behind us and the inflation—you know, the Fed inflating the economy is actually working. So keep an eye on that GDP number. It’s gonna be interesting—a lot of moving parts within this one. I want to see another good number before I go and say, “Hey, you know what? The economy is back. We’re growing more than three percent,” and that may not be reflected in stock prices right here. So something to look forward to when the next GDP number comes out.
As for stocks, earnings season almost over. 68 percent beat on the bottom line if you’re looking for a number—it’s roughly average. It’s usually like 65 to 70 percent—roughly average. Guidance—so they report third quarter earnings and then they issue guidance for fourth quarter. It was mixed all around. It wasn’t really that great, pretty much expected. No one knows how the holiday season’s gonna go, especially with the government shutdown. Everyone’s being really cautious.
Overall you have to be real careful going into next earnings season. I’ve used that word a lot. “Be cautious. You’ve got to be careful.” I know stocks are going high, but like you don’t have to be careful. In small cap world, you have to be careful. A lot of companies reported earnings in my portfolio in the past two weeks. The ones that beat barely moved higher, and the ones that missed moved lower by around ten percent, even a little bit more, so you have to be real careful. And those ten percent declines weren’t even on super weak quarters. They just didn’t meet those high expectations.
We don’t know what fourth quarter’s gonna be, again for the government shutdown. If they don’t meet those estimates, again we’re not in a market where—picture—not even picture, but some of my subscribers understand this if you’re following my newsletter. I recommend stocks that have very little downside, or at least I try to. Stocks that fell off of a quarter, 35 percent—you see insiders buying them like crazy, stocks trading near book value that have good balance sheets. And a lot of times when those companies—and I mentioned this last week in my educational segment. Like Steel Dynamics—everybody hated the stock. It reported two bad quarters, yet the stock hardly moved lower ‘cause expectations were so low, and now we’re up 70 percent about 18 months, almost 2 years later on this stock that’s paying a 3 percent yield. It’s fantastic for us. Now the steel industry’s picking up and we’re probably gonna ride it even higher.
We’re in a market that’s a flipside to that, where expectations are sky high and if we don’t meet those estimates, even if we report inline earnings, especially in the small cap world, they’re gonna get hit. This is why I’ve been cautious about it. I’ve seen this market. It’s more like 2011 where you could get a quick 10, 15 percent decline. You might not see it in the S&P 500 or the Dow which is filled with large cap stocks. And even the Russell 2000 is a little misleading because it’s easily outperformed the markets, but it’s heavily weighed with just certain stocks. I mean, if you look at it there’s $5 billion to $7 billion market cap stocks in there because they only rebalance the Russell once a year. So if you have a $2 billion market cap and your stock goes up say 400 percent of whatever and it has a $9 billion market cap, it stays on the Russell and it has a huge weighting in the Russell until it rebalances, and then that stock may come out and go into Russell mid-cap index. So—plus they also have stocks that have, you know, a $50 million market cap sometimes that maybe had a $300 million market cap and crashed. So you have to be careful with the indices and how they’re weighed.
But individual stocks—believe me. I cover the individual stocks in the Russell 2000 and a bunch of small cap and _____ cap stocks. A lot of them are starting to get hit, which is good for me because we’re finding more ideas, but just be careful if you own small caps going into next quarter. That’s the point I’m trying to make here. You could have a little difficulty. Expectations are sky high right now. Even inline earnings are pushing some of these names lower, which may create a good buying opportunity. You have to analyze the corner. But again, if you’re on the sidelines at all look through next earnings season. You’re probably gonna get an opportunity to buy many of your favorite stocks down 10 to 15 percent from now, and that’s my prediction, especially in the small cap world.
Large cap world—look, the earnings are ____________ buybacks and stuff like that. They have so many massive orders; they could push them to any quarter they want to. It’s a lot easier for large caps to meet those numbers or barely miss those numbers, especially with buybacks now, and they have these fortress balance sheets. But with small caps, they don’t have those fortress balance sheets. They can’t manipulate earnings as easily they do. Again, when I say manipulate it’s not illegal—you’re allowed to do it—but there’s a lot of financial engineering. You look at companies like IBM, companies like McDonald’s, you know, beat by a couple pennies all the time. There’s a lot of manipulation in earnings, believe me, if you’re really an accountant and you look deep into that. Small caps you don’t have that. So just be careful going into next quarter when it comes to small caps.
Okay, guys, let’s move to my educational segment. I got a little help here from Brett Eversole who’s an analyst who works with Steve Sjuggerud. He wrote a fantastic piece of Growth Stock Wire that I love, and it’s basically about the world’s best-performing markets are still a buy—that’s what it’s titled and he wrote it this week. And he talks about these three markets which are up 40 percent, 27 percent, and 26 percent in just a little over four months and how nobody’s really noticed and how it’s basically a bad to less-bad situation. And, you know, basically it’s an opportunity to buy things when it’s slowly improving. That’s when you get the greatest gains.
And this opportunity has to do with Europe. I mean, you’re looking at out of favor countries like Greece, Italy, Spain, right? I mean, those countries are left for dead, every one of them. “Why are you going to any of those countries? They’re horrible! You know, the debt to GDP ratio—through the roof. Crazy. Don’t even go near them, you know? It’s gonna get worse!” We’ve heard it all.
Well, you’re looking at European stocks, and now all of a sudden they’ve bounced back. I mean, a lot of these funds are up 30, 40 percent, easily outperforming the S&P 500 which is up around 30 percent. But if you missed that opportunity to buy these countries, which are basically bad to less-bad situations, you still have time to buy them. Now today you could buy Greece, Italy, Spain at a huge discount to the historical average. I mean, if you’re looking at these countries, they trade at an average price to book ratio of around 1.1 today. To put that in perspective, US stocks are more than twice as expensive, and US stocks should be more expensive than these other countries. These other countries are more risky. We have a better system in place when it comes to accounting, so they should be, but not that big of an adjustment where you’re seeing 1.1 book value and you’re seeing, what, 2.5, 2.4 on US stocks. It’s very wide. So even after they move higher, there’s still plenty of room to go much, much higher.
Now if you think about it, you want to put this market in perspective, look at 2009 and 2010, right? We had a credit crisis, bottomed out in March 2009. Nobody really wanted these stocks, but March 2009, March 2010, everything soared. No matter what you bought it soared, right? Everything did well during that period.
Well, a lot of people were like, “Well, that’s it. It’s over, this and that.” Well, from then to now we had a massive surge in stocks, right? So you’re looking at—a lot of people said, “Hey, you know what? Finally”—especially people that got in in the middle of 2009, a lot of those people, especially from the e-mails that I get, started selling their stocks and taking profits in 2010. But now you’re looking—put that market with Italy, Spain, and Greece. You’re seeing, like, they had their credit crisis, March 2009 lows, and now they’ve bounced off to the park where they’re basically in 2010 mode if you compare them to the US. They’re still dirt cheap trading at 1.1 times book value.
So I still think you’re looking at markets and governments around the world doing everything they can to inflate their economies, especially us, right, even here—every place. And while they’re doing that these stocks are becoming one of the only investment vehicles to invest in. I mean, where else are you gonna go? You gonna go bonds with low interest rates, interest rates, historic lows everywhere in most places? So people looking to invest in stocks, this is a good alternative. Don’t go to individual stocks. I’d invest in funds. You could do the Google search and invest in the equivalent to the S&P 500 in Italy, Spain, Greece. That’s your best bet. But those are great alternative investments. You’re not only investing in the US, which I wouldn’t say is expensive, but kind of fairly valued right now. And a lot of these global economies are still trying to catch up, still early on in their growth cycles.
So ________ Italy, Spain, and Greece—again, when you look at the fundamentals it’s gonna make you want to puke, but there’s no place else to invest in these countries other than in equities. They’re doing everything they can with the government to inflate their markets. Think 2010 in US if you bought stock then—not at the low, ‘cause you missed the low for Italy, Spain, and Greece. But if you’re investing in these countries at these dirt cheap prices, not only do they have high upside potential, but you have limited downside from this at 1.1 times book with the governments inflating the markets. You have little downside and a lot, a lot of upside.
So Brett Eversole did a great job pointing out those markets—again, Italy, Spain, Greece. Everyone in the world still hates these places. They’re areas that are going from bad to less-bad. And from a guy who recommends stocks and small caps, when you see that trend happen it explodes higher. Again, another example—same example I’ve been using is Steel Dynamics, a company that went from bad to less-bad. It went up 35 percent and now things are getting better. We’re up 70 percent on positions, probably going a lot higher as Goldman Sachs just upgraded the entire steel sector. I use that example. I can give you another ten in my newsletter—same thing where we bought these stocks. It’s kind of the same situation with Italy, Spain, and Greece—bad to less-bad, and I still think you have a lot more upside just like Brett Eversole.
Okay, guys, that’s it for me. Just real quick, is anyone sick of Twitter yet? The stock IPO’d last week, went as high as $50.00, trading about, what, 20 percent below the highs now, with a valuation of, what, $24 billion, 21 times sales—I don’t know if you know what that means, 21 times sales. To put that in perspective you have Google trading at 6 times sales, Amazon trading at 2.3 times sales, and Microsoft trading at 4 times sales. You have Twitter—21 times sales. If you want to look at it—I mean, Google, if they traded at 21 times sales, they’d have a market cap of $1.7 trillion [Laughter] just to put valuation in perspective. We all know that valuation means nothing with these stocks, at least right now, but I just can’t listen to CNBC talk about this story every five minutes. I mean, even today still Twitter’s being pushed down our throats.
It’s just amazing how the media works sometimes. You know, for example, the Miami story, Incognito, the bullying and—you know, Incognito’s an offensive lineman for the Miami Dolphins. He’s basically being blamed for bullying a guy named Jonathan Martin who’s another offensive lineman who weighs like 330 pounds. He was bullying him. I mean, seriously it’s really a non-event, but these guys—and these guys are kind of like brothers from what I understand, and Martin’s a rookie and apparently has emotional problems, but he’s saying he’s being bullied and, you know, get in pro football locker room and stuff—yet no one’s ever laid a hand on him. And the media’s throwing this story down your throat. You can’t look at ESPN where it’s not the top story, especially for the past two weeks, and now Miami played on Monday Night Football. It’s just ridiculous. It’s like, “Enough with this dumb story. We don’t want to hear about it.”
It’s almost like Trayvon Martin and how it was made racial—you know, it’s actually awesome what the media does to turn this around and make these stories so big. It’s a testament to how stupid people are sometimes that just suck this up. And you look beyond the fact that some idiot shot a 17-year old kid, you know, who—whatever. I mean, you want to make it racial, make it racial—whatever you want to do. Want to make it racial profiling—whatever you want to do. It’s just they try to amplify this so much, and it’s kind of like—you know, just like the Twitter story as well. It’s like, “Come on, man. Enough—enough with Twitter. Enough with this offensive lineman Jonathan Martin. Enough, enough!” You just can’t watch these channels anymore. Anyway, it must be fun working for the media. Your job is basically to blow up every non-event that hopefully goes viral.
Anyway, real quick back to Twitter ‘cause I’m getting a lot of questions on it. I want to finish with this here. A lot of people are asking if it’s a buy or a short, and my quick advice on this is don’t do anything until like six months from now. You’ll probably see it drift lower. That’s when insiders like Jeff Bezos, Mark Anderson who’s an SK ________, they’re gonna be allowed to sell their stakes in Twitter. And Bezos is the founder of Amazon—that trades at 132 times forward earnings. For me it’s gonna be interesting to see if he sells Twitter and says, “Twitter’s expensive.” [Laughter] So if he thinks Twitter’s expensive, you know, and he’s not really selling Amazon it’s gonna be interesting to me. But if these guys who basically—you know, Bezos, Anderson, whose whole lives have been about investing and making money on these high valuation stocks, if they decide to sell, kind of a red flag to me. That means, “Hey, you know what? This is an expensive company that they don’t think is justified, that valuation is justified.” And, you know, it’ll be interesting to see in six months from now when that lockup period ends if those guys are selling. If they do, I’d be running really, really fast. But from now until then, a couple months from now, you’re probably gonna see it trade around ___________ bound, maybe come down a little bit.
But enough—that’s it on Twitter. I don’t want any more questions. I get a lot of them and I’m just sick of the Twitter story.
Anyway—Eagles, another nice win, nice job, guys. Let’s see if we can win a game at home for the first time in two years. That would be cool. I just wanted to give a quick shout-out to the e-mails.
Anyway, don’t forget to visit us online, www.StansberryRadio.com, where you can subscribe to our mailing list just by putting your e-mail in a little box. Again, the e-mail address is StansberryRadio.com. We also have transcripts of these podcasts so you don’t have to listen to me sometimes. You just read, pick out some of the things. If you feel like quoting me on some of the stupid things I say, fine. Take it out of transcripts, throw it wherever you want. I don’t really care. But it’s pretty cool. A lot of people ask for transcripts and we do have them on StansberryRadio.com.
Also be sure to visit our free sites, GrowthStockWire.com, DailyWealth.com, where you can catch articles from myself, Steve Sjuggerud, Matt Badiali, Jeff Clark, Dan Ferris, Doc, even Porter—I mean, the whole S&A staff. We write for these sites for free and give you ideas, things that we’re seeing. It gives me a chance to write even sometimes about large caps and stuff, things that I’m seeing outside of small caps. It’s pretty cool. So that’s out for all of us to write. Again, it’s free sites at GrowthStockWire.com, DailyWealth.com. You can find Brett Eversole’s story about buying those economies, you know, Greece, Italy, Spain on GrowthStockWire.com. It’s a fantastic article and be sure to go to it and I really appreciate him helping me out with that story. I think it’s a fantastic idea.
And if you have any comments about this show, stocks, ______, my newsletters including how you can get a year of Small Stock Specialist for only $39.00 for the entire year, e-mail me, [email protected]
, that’s [email protected]
Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the week. Be safe and I’ll see you in seven days. Take care.
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